Comments on: PR: Unlikely

By: John Erskine

John Erskine — Sun, 24 Apr 2005 12:49:33 +0000

As a Labour supporter of Electoral Reform, I recollect the key opposition to the Jenkins recommendations came from elements of the traditionalist left within the party. For example, UNISON, the union to which I belong, ignored a member consultation which went in favour of Jenkins, and the conference policy of one of the three pre-merger unions, NUPE, which supported PR. Instead, the Trot dominated executive backled FPTP . Likewise a number of other unions , and many veteran lefties such as the ‘Campaign for Labour Party Democracy’ . The key dividing line on this issue in the Labour Party is not Blairite/Non-Blairite. It is between those in possesion of an IQ and working intellect such as Robin Cook, Ann Campbell or Tony Wright, and those with a significant deficiency in the marbles department.

By: Chris Lightfoot

Chris Lightfoot — Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:43:38 +0000

As I mention elsewhere, altering the electoral system in his third term may be a rational move for Blair and other tribal Labourites.

By: Adam

Adam — Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:21:12 +0000

People still think that party allegiance (“I’ve voted xyz for 50 years…”) says something about their value system – e.g. voting labour means you are on the side of the workforce and generally socialist. Seems to me that these principles don’t actually reflect what a government actually does any more. Principles are more wielded as a marketing device to keep the loyalists happy, and ‘new’ Labour are the masters of marketing at the moment.

By: Paul Davies

Paul Davies — Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:49:11 +0000

re the LD voting Tory thing – whenever it has been mentioned recently (i recall a politicalbetting discussion in particular) the idea is still anathema to every LD that cared to respond.

There are plenty of people that vote so they can turn round in 50 years and say “I’ve voted for XYZ all my life” rather than people that vote to actually achieve a change

By: Chris

Chris — Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:01:11 +0000

Paul (Davies) – maybe you’re right, and I am taking a pessimistic line. Your theory that Blair may want to steal as much as Gordon’s thunder as possible is plausible; sadly I think I’ve had too much of too many promises of bold action for good and then very little actual real change delivered.

On your second comment, I remember a recent New Statesman article which said that although that Lib Dems used to have an aversion to Tories, a 2005 survey found that a Lib Dem was now just as likely to tactically vote Tory to keep a Labour candidate out, as to vote Labour to keep the Tories out. I think; I can’t find any website that repeats the claim, but I’ll have a dig around…

By: Paul Davies

Paul Davies — Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:29:29 +0000

try telling your average Lib Dem to vote Tory and they will probably throw up, even if it is the only way their party would wield any sort of power.

It is a sad state of affairs that party allegiances dictated by ancestry and irrational hatred take precedence over everything else when it comes to voting intentions.

By: Paul Squires

Paul Squires — Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:57:54 +0000

A few years ago I’d have said that the electoral system was doing its job, but recently I’ve come to the conclusion that /something/ needs to be done. The problem is that any electoral system will inherit the main flaws of the current one – primarily that the people making the decision (ie, the electorate) are, by are large, incapable of actually doing a good job.

Some of this may be down to apathy, which would be reduced if there was some point to the whole charade, but an awful lot is down to media manipulation, and (dare I say it?) stupidity. The vast majority of people don’t understand what’s going on, and probably wouldn’t even if they had all the facts delivered truthfully – they’d probably still rather support a campaign to keep Jordan’s breasts the same size, or vote on Big Brother etc…

People truely get the governments they deserve, which says a lot about the people of Britain.

As a further point – if the best way to get electoral reform is to force labour to form a coalition with the lib-dems then surely everyone in favour of electoral reform (if voting tactically) should be voting Tory..?

By: Paul Davies

Paul Davies — Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:29:16 +0000

I think you’re being a bit pessimistic. Fair enough, I was being a bit optimistic, but we’ll see if we can meet in the middle…

Blair has at least looked again at PR (much to the chagrin of Messrs Straw and Prescott – see Times 15/04 – should be a link via my blog for that day) So it is at least on his mind for the first time since he told Jenkins to sod off.

And given that this will be his last term, what does he care if he destroys the system that returned him 3 big wins? If he leaves the scene having been the chap that made our democracy fairer, not sure he’ll be too bothered about what happens afterwards – it’s not like he’s got a massively inherent ideological attachment to the Labour party.

He’s also got to be a little concerned about Brown subsequently stealing the limelight and then going down in history as the real driving force behind the NL revolution. A big grand gesture such as putting PR in place would not then return Brown with a record majority to eclipse Blair in 2009…

It may be slightly wishful thinking, but there is some logic in it