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	<title>Comments on: Reforming the Lords</title>
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		<title>By: Dan Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2005/08/10/reforming-the-lords/comment-page-1/#comment-1305</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2005 17:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/blog/?p=747#comment-1305</guid>
		<description>Lads, ye should see the hodge-podge we have over here in Ireland. 60 seats, 43 elected into different panels using PR, however the electorate is councillors, outgoing members of the Dail and. Then 6 seats divided between some but not all university graduates. Finally, the Taoiseach (PM) gets to appoint 11 to ensure the government has a majority.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lads, ye should see the hodge-podge we have over here in Ireland. 60 seats, 43 elected into different panels using PR, however the electorate is councillors, outgoing members of the Dail and. Then 6 seats divided between some but not all university graduates. Finally, the Taoiseach (PM) gets to appoint 11 to ensure the government has a majority.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Holledge</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2005/08/10/reforming-the-lords/comment-page-1/#comment-1296</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Holledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Aug 2005 01:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/blog/?p=747#comment-1296</guid>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris: excellent posting, much better than the hurried piece I got out!</p>
<p>I agree with pretty much everything you have written. I am strongly in favour of a 100 percent elected chamber. Anything else will be subject to manipulation. (Some of the proposals for special representation for faith groups, trade unionists etc remind me of the &#8216;functional groups&#8217; that were a feature of the Indonesian parliament under General Soeharto.)</p>
<p>As for the staggered introduction of elections, I agree it’s unnecessary. A complete house could be elected with members initially serving short, medium and full terms, perhaps by lot. </p>
<p>I would be in favour of members serving a single term of 8-10 years, one third retiring at regular intervals, with elections under the STV (single transferable vote) system.</p>
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		<title>By: tom</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2005/08/10/reforming-the-lords/comment-page-1/#comment-1294</link>
		<dc:creator>tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/blog/?p=747#comment-1294</guid>
		<description>See, I&#039;ve always thought that it would make a lot more sense to have the Commons elected by a PR system, and have the &lt;strike&gt;Lords&lt;/strike&gt; House of Representatives (or whatever) elected by straight FPP for longer terms. That way, the government can be an accurate expression of the country&#039;s evaluation of the competing manifestos, while the scrutiny function of the upper chamber fits a lot better with the idea of direct representation. I also think that it could lead a to a lot more independents in the upper chamber.

As an additional thought, you could possibly also include an element of corporatism - in addition to voting for your local representative, you could vote for a selection of expert/interest groups (Unions, the CBI, the Royal Society, Stop the War, Transsexual Dentists Against Speed Cameras) who would put forward candidates for a limited number of seats. That might help preserve that &quot;collection of experts&quot; function that supporters of the Lords tend to bang on about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, I&#8217;ve always thought that it would make a lot more sense to have the Commons elected by a PR system, and have the <strike>Lords</strike> House of Representatives (or whatever) elected by straight FPP for longer terms. That way, the government can be an accurate expression of the country&#8217;s evaluation of the competing manifestos, while the scrutiny function of the upper chamber fits a lot better with the idea of direct representation. I also think that it could lead a to a lot more independents in the upper chamber.</p>
<p>As an additional thought, you could possibly also include an element of corporatism &#8211; in addition to voting for your local representative, you could vote for a selection of expert/interest groups (Unions, the CBI, the Royal Society, Stop the War, Transsexual Dentists Against Speed Cameras) who would put forward candidates for a limited number of seats. That might help preserve that &#8220;collection of experts&#8221; function that supporters of the Lords tend to bang on about.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2005/08/10/reforming-the-lords/comment-page-1/#comment-1293</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/blog/?p=747#comment-1293</guid>
		<description>Although the SCPB does specify we use the European designated regions and nations as the constituency boundaries for the Second Chamber elections, it too disagrees with the closed party list system and favours open party lists or full STV instead, so the proposed system doesn&#039;t have the party yes-man bias that the Euro election has.

Also, I&#039;m leaning more to the longer non-renewable terms myself after reading these comments... they do have their merits. I&#039;d still stick with 8 years tops, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although the SCPB does specify we use the European designated regions and nations as the constituency boundaries for the Second Chamber elections, it too disagrees with the closed party list system and favours open party lists or full STV instead, so the proposed system doesn&#8217;t have the party yes-man bias that the Euro election has.</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m leaning more to the longer non-renewable terms myself after reading these comments&#8230; they do have their merits. I&#8217;d still stick with 8 years tops, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2005/08/10/reforming-the-lords/comment-page-1/#comment-1292</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/blog/?p=747#comment-1292</guid>
		<description>With regards the election terms and systems I have to disagree with both Jo and Chris. 

Yes the electoral system should be PR, but the list system used for Euro elections is possibly the worst of all PR systems, it helps concentrate powers in the hands of the parties and elect yes men. 

As for the term lengths, provided the terms are non-renewable and rolling I think long terms are preferable. Firstly it makes the members less opinion poll and short term focused and secondly it smooths over the fluctuations in popularity giving a calming influence on the governing party.

I&#039;ve just written to my MP and posted a copy on my blog, unfortunatly I expect it will do little good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regards the election terms and systems I have to disagree with both Jo and Chris. </p>
<p>Yes the electoral system should be PR, but the list system used for Euro elections is possibly the worst of all PR systems, it helps concentrate powers in the hands of the parties and elect yes men. </p>
<p>As for the term lengths, provided the terms are non-renewable and rolling I think long terms are preferable. Firstly it makes the members less opinion poll and short term focused and secondly it smooths over the fluctuations in popularity giving a calming influence on the governing party.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve just written to my MP and posted a copy on my blog, unfortunatly I expect it will do little good.</p>
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		<title>By: RF</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2005/08/10/reforming-the-lords/comment-page-1/#comment-1291</link>
		<dc:creator>RF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/blog/?p=747#comment-1291</guid>
		<description>The problem with reforming the HoL is that the government will wish to turn it into a rubber-stamping machine for its policies, whereas currently it is at least capable of throwing a temporary spanner in the works and hopefully causing enough fuss to get problematic issues withdrawn. I&#039;d rather it stayed as it is than end up with a body designed to fast-track and lend legitimacy to the likes of the ID card bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with reforming the HoL is that the government will wish to turn it into a rubber-stamping machine for its policies, whereas currently it is at least capable of throwing a temporary spanner in the works and hopefully causing enough fuss to get problematic issues withdrawn. I&#8217;d rather it stayed as it is than end up with a body designed to fast-track and lend legitimacy to the likes of the ID card bill.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Duffin</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2005/08/10/reforming-the-lords/comment-page-1/#comment-1290</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Duffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/blog/?p=747#comment-1290</guid>
		<description>What Jo said about independence arising from the lack of need to chase focus groups etc etc. This is a real virtue and it would be a shame to lose it. I don&#039;t have a problem with appointment for life, subject to safeguards about real criminal behaviour. 

(Definition of real - NOT just anything the current PM disagrees with, ie nobody should be ejected for thought-police reasons)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Jo said about independence arising from the lack of need to chase focus groups etc etc. This is a real virtue and it would be a shame to lose it. I don&#8217;t have a problem with appointment for life, subject to safeguards about real criminal behaviour. </p>
<p>(Definition of real &#8211; NOT just anything the current PM disagrees with, ie nobody should be ejected for thought-police reasons)</p>
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		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2005/08/10/reforming-the-lords/comment-page-1/#comment-1289</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/blog/?p=747#comment-1289</guid>
		<description>I too like the SCP proposals, particularly because I very much value the independant appointees - I think they bring voices into politics which would never otherwise be there, which is a good thing.

I like the idea of a long term as well though and ideally would like to see a long term (8-12 years perhaps) but no opportunity to stand again after the term ends.  I think that one of the few benefits of permanent appointment is that members of the Lords are much less opinion poll focused than those in the Commons ard are able to advocate positions which are difficult in the short term but bring huge long term gains.  I wouldn&#039;t like to see that lost by descent into a scramble for votes.

I would also like to see the Lords reps elected on a different system than the Commons - I think it would be illuminating to have the two chambers representing different ways of measuring public opinion.  It wouldn&#039;t have to be whole nation PR (although I do like that, given that we&#039;ve got independants appointed anyway) - perhaps the list system, as used for European elections or perhaps another, who can say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too like the SCP proposals, particularly because I very much value the independant appointees &#8211; I think they bring voices into politics which would never otherwise be there, which is a good thing.</p>
<p>I like the idea of a long term as well though and ideally would like to see a long term (8-12 years perhaps) but no opportunity to stand again after the term ends.  I think that one of the few benefits of permanent appointment is that members of the Lords are much less opinion poll focused than those in the Commons ard are able to advocate positions which are difficult in the short term but bring huge long term gains.  I wouldn&#8217;t like to see that lost by descent into a scramble for votes.</p>
<p>I would also like to see the Lords reps elected on a different system than the Commons &#8211; I think it would be illuminating to have the two chambers representing different ways of measuring public opinion.  It wouldn&#8217;t have to be whole nation PR (although I do like that, given that we&#8217;ve got independants appointed anyway) &#8211; perhaps the list system, as used for European elections or perhaps another, who can say.</p>
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