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	<title>Comments on: Rotten from the top down</title>
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	<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2010/02/08/rotten-from-the-top-down/</link>
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		<title>By: Some bits and pieces on the #debill &#124; qwghlm.co.uk</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2010/02/08/rotten-from-the-top-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3972</link>
		<dc:creator>Some bits and pieces on the #debill &#124; qwghlm.co.uk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 11:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/?p=1537#comment-3972</guid>
		<description>[...] rather than details of the bill. It was pathetic. Exactly what I meant when I said &#8220;rotten from the top down&#8220;. Yet Vaizey and his ilk (on both sides of the House) will be happily returned to Parliament [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] rather than details of the bill. It was pathetic. Exactly what I meant when I said &#8220;rotten from the top down&#8220;. Yet Vaizey and his ilk (on both sides of the House) will be happily returned to Parliament [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2010/02/08/rotten-from-the-top-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3918</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/?p=1537#comment-3918</guid>
		<description>Thanks everyone for your replies. Some responses to your points of view...

I don&#039;t like it when people don&#039;t vote, but it&#039;s a mistake to consider it to be the cause of ills; it&#039;s a symptom not a cause and to criticise people who don&#039;t vote as having no right to talk about politics is missing the point spectacularly. As is forcing people to vote, the natural policy conclusion of such a state of mind.

I actually found Adam Curtis&#039; &quot;The Trap&quot; to be a little misfiring, certainly not as good as &quot;The Power of Nightmares&quot; - the final part unravelled a little as he became too polemical. I&#039;d like to see him have a second go at it and keep it to storytelling.

Finally, while it&#039;s true that politicians rarely contribute to new waves of thinking, they have had the capability to bring forward ideas and theories into the public conscience and humanise them, apply them (think the 1945 Attlee &amp; Bevan implementing Beveridge, or Thatcher &amp; Joseph channelling Friedman). Blair &amp; Brown had Giddens, but I find Giddens&#039; thinking to be either banal or muddled and piecemeal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks everyone for your replies. Some responses to your points of view&#8230;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like it when people don&#8217;t vote, but it&#8217;s a mistake to consider it to be the cause of ills; it&#8217;s a symptom not a cause and to criticise people who don&#8217;t vote as having no right to talk about politics is missing the point spectacularly. As is forcing people to vote, the natural policy conclusion of such a state of mind.</p>
<p>I actually found Adam Curtis&#8217; &#8220;The Trap&#8221; to be a little misfiring, certainly not as good as &#8220;The Power of Nightmares&#8221; &#8211; the final part unravelled a little as he became too polemical. I&#8217;d like to see him have a second go at it and keep it to storytelling.</p>
<p>Finally, while it&#8217;s true that politicians rarely contribute to new waves of thinking, they have had the capability to bring forward ideas and theories into the public conscience and humanise them, apply them (think the 1945 Attlee &amp; Bevan implementing Beveridge, or Thatcher &amp; Joseph channelling Friedman). Blair &amp; Brown had Giddens, but I find Giddens&#8217; thinking to be either banal or muddled and piecemeal.</p>
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		<title>By: Links 11/2/2010: LinuxQuestions.org Awards, Myst Online Set Free &#124; Boycott Novell</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2010/02/08/rotten-from-the-top-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3916</link>
		<dc:creator>Links 11/2/2010: LinuxQuestions.org Awards, Myst Online Set Free &#124; Boycott Novell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/?p=1537#comment-3916</guid>
		<description>[...] Rotten from the top down The systems that the post-Thatcher consensus created have broken badly. So far in Britain there is little political will to reform them, or many of the other aspects of our society that need fixing or preparation for change ahead – I’ve talked about the economy but it could equally be global warming, energy security, an ageing population, the digital revolution, the rise of rival developing economies. Qualities such as creativity, bluntness, open-mindedness, humility and independence have largely become absent from politicians (of course, there are of course honourable exceptions, but none of them sit on the front benches) and they are essential for the challenges that lie ahead. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Rotten from the top down The systems that the post-Thatcher consensus created have broken badly. So far in Britain there is little political will to reform them, or many of the other aspects of our society that need fixing or preparation for change ahead – I’ve talked about the economy but it could equally be global warming, energy security, an ageing population, the digital revolution, the rise of rival developing economies. Qualities such as creativity, bluntness, open-mindedness, humility and independence have largely become absent from politicians (of course, there are of course honourable exceptions, but none of them sit on the front benches) and they are essential for the challenges that lie ahead. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Armand</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2010/02/08/rotten-from-the-top-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3911</link>
		<dc:creator>Armand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/?p=1537#comment-3911</guid>
		<description>@Damian Kahya - I&#039;m not sure I agree that James Cameron around to dinner with the others would be social suicide. I&#039;m sure people from both parties enjoyed or at least appreciated &lt;i&gt;Avatar&lt;/i&gt;.

...aren&#039;t you all glad I contributed to this discussion?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Damian Kahya &#8211; I&#8217;m not sure I agree that James Cameron around to dinner with the others would be social suicide. I&#8217;m sure people from both parties enjoyed or at least appreciated <i>Avatar</i>.</p>
<p>&#8230;aren&#8217;t you all glad I contributed to this discussion?</p>
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		<title>By: Damian Kahya</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2010/02/08/rotten-from-the-top-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3902</link>
		<dc:creator>Damian Kahya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/?p=1537#comment-3902</guid>
		<description>Really good post. 

I would disagree that the values of most of the two front benches are indistinguishable. Imagine politics didn&#039;t exist and you invited your friends Gordon Brown, Ed Milliband, James Cameron and George Osborne to dinner at the same time. It would be social suicide.

The problem, as you point out, is that no matter how different their values they are all picking from a pitiful bunch of ideas, words and even thoughts with which to conduct politics. In the micro decisions there are strong differences which matter, but beyond that - nothing. 

Thing is, ideas, philosophies and new sets of principles haven&#039;t (IMO) historically come from politicians. I&#039;m not sure we should attack them for resorting to technocratic managerialism in the face of the intellectual wasteland that surrounds them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really good post. </p>
<p>I would disagree that the values of most of the two front benches are indistinguishable. Imagine politics didn&#8217;t exist and you invited your friends Gordon Brown, Ed Milliband, James Cameron and George Osborne to dinner at the same time. It would be social suicide.</p>
<p>The problem, as you point out, is that no matter how different their values they are all picking from a pitiful bunch of ideas, words and even thoughts with which to conduct politics. In the micro decisions there are strong differences which matter, but beyond that &#8211; nothing. </p>
<p>Thing is, ideas, philosophies and new sets of principles haven&#8217;t (IMO) historically come from politicians. I&#8217;m not sure we should attack them for resorting to technocratic managerialism in the face of the intellectual wasteland that surrounds them.</p>
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		<title>By: Rotten from the bottom up &#124; qwghlm.co.uk</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2010/02/08/rotten-from-the-top-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3894</link>
		<dc:creator>Rotten from the bottom up &#124; qwghlm.co.uk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/?p=1537#comment-3894</guid>
		<description>[...] &#171; Rotten from the top down [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &laquo; Rotten from the top down [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nuff Said</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2010/02/08/rotten-from-the-top-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3893</link>
		<dc:creator>Nuff Said</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/?p=1537#comment-3893</guid>
		<description>@scumboni - I absolutely believe that if you don&#039;t vote, you are abrogating responsibility to others for the politics that follow. If you don&#039;t like the choices, spoil your ballot paper. They are all counted. 

Otherwise don&#039;t get sanctimonious with those of us who believe in trying to do their best with the choices on offer. The alternative - as you say - is you end up with George Galloway!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@scumboni &#8211; I absolutely believe that if you don&#8217;t vote, you are abrogating responsibility to others for the politics that follow. If you don&#8217;t like the choices, spoil your ballot paper. They are all counted. </p>
<p>Otherwise don&#8217;t get sanctimonious with those of us who believe in trying to do their best with the choices on offer. The alternative &#8211; as you say &#8211; is you end up with George Galloway!</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2010-02-09 &#171; pootling</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2010/02/08/rotten-from-the-top-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3892</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2010-02-09 &#171; pootling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/?p=1537#comment-3892</guid>
		<description>[...] Chris Applegate on the state of politics And the fact our two political parties are nigh-on indistinguishable. He makes some excellent points. (tags: blog post chrisapplegate qwghlm politics conservative labour liberaldemocrats) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chris Applegate on the state of politics And the fact our two political parties are nigh-on indistinguishable. He makes some excellent points. (tags: blog post chrisapplegate qwghlm politics conservative labour liberaldemocrats) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Links for 8th February 2010 &#124; Velcro City Tourist Board</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2010/02/08/rotten-from-the-top-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3889</link>
		<dc:creator>Links for 8th February 2010 &#124; Velcro City Tourist Board</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 00:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/?p=1537#comment-3889</guid>
		<description>[...] Rotten from the top down [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Rotten from the top down [...]</p>
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		<title>By: max</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2010/02/08/rotten-from-the-top-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3888</link>
		<dc:creator>max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/?p=1537#comment-3888</guid>
		<description>Very interesting stuff there. It reminds me a bit of the documentary The Trap, from Adam Curtis. The gist of it seems to be that during the cold war, to counter the communist ideology the western leaders moved to having no ideology, with the only ideology being free market consumption. That seems to be why politicians are treating the voters like customers, and going for gimmicks to differentiate each other. It is interesting that they think most people have fixed voting habits, presumably it is just a few swing voters they are aiming at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting stuff there. It reminds me a bit of the documentary The Trap, from Adam Curtis. The gist of it seems to be that during the cold war, to counter the communist ideology the western leaders moved to having no ideology, with the only ideology being free market consumption. That seems to be why politicians are treating the voters like customers, and going for gimmicks to differentiate each other. It is interesting that they think most people have fixed voting habits, presumably it is just a few swing voters they are aiming at.</p>
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		<title>By: almost witty</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2010/02/08/rotten-from-the-top-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3887</link>
		<dc:creator>almost witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/?p=1537#comment-3887</guid>
		<description>Recognised except by anyone who already works in the political system, since they have a vested interest in maintaining the ladder that got them to their exhalted position in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recognised except by anyone who already works in the political system, since they have a vested interest in maintaining the ladder that got them to their exhalted position in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/2010/02/08/rotten-from-the-top-down/comment-page-1/#comment-3886</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/?p=1537#comment-3886</guid>
		<description>Clearly the assistant in question had never heard of class and partisan dealignment - recognised phenomena for several decades now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly the assistant in question had never heard of class and partisan dealignment &#8211; recognised phenomena for several decades now.</p>
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